Saturday, January 13, 2018

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

68 comments:

listener said...

Rainbows are First!

listener said...

🌈😊We made it there and back again.

The drive to Maine was hard in driving rain and thick fog. The time there was wonderfully well spent. The trip back wasn't bad. Roads were good to about half way through Vermont. Then they got snow covered. There were maybe two corners that didn't feel comfortable, as the car wanted to slip a little. But it wasn't scary.

We came home to 4" of heavy snow and a plowed driveway. Two very happy cats here! 🐯🐱

We watched the forecast closely on Thursday and Friday and saw a window for safe travel over. They got only rain in Maine (mainly on the plain). The mess up here happened while we were there, and we waited until the storm ended and the crews were able to clean up the roads before heading home. We could have stayed one more night if that were needed.

So, Friday night after we arrived, we visited a SIL who had just moved to the same town our kids live in. She will be living alone for the first time in her life, as her husband (Bill's brother) died 5 years ago (pancreatic cancer) and her son and his partner stayed with her until the house was renovated and sold. So now she's in a beautiful condo in a great town and it's only about 8 miles from where she grew up.

On Saturday morning I met for breakfast with a woman I was spiritual guide for long ago here in Vermont. She then left for Texas, to go to seminary, then stayed there to serve. She returned to New England about a year ago, to Maine. We have been meeting by phone and Skype, and finally got a chance to see one another again. I thought it had been about 12 years, but it's been 18!! I really wanted to see her on this visit, as her husband was diagnosed with cancer last week.

THEN came the big reason we made the drive. Maine*Grandson's birthday party!! He turns 2 today (Sunday), but the party was Saturday, as his cousins had to leave for Rhode Island for a gymnastics meet.

It was a LOT of fun!! We are so glad we made the trip. What's more, Root*Center*Son made the drive late Friday night, after work...in rain, fog AND darkness! We all got home safely today. Vermonters know how (and when) to drive in snow. ❄️

listener said...

Hawaii Missile Threat Alarm was a false alarm

We are told it was human error.

Am I getting cynical if I think somehow it was someone trying to make a statement of some kind? Maybe a worker trying to raise awareness of the felt missile threat. Any chance it was someone in DT's Admin trying to push for more military funding to counter North Korea?

Is it really true that it's this easy to make such a profound error? I'm not sure I buy that...!

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/13/politics/hawaii-missile-threat-false-alarm/index.html?sr=fbCNN011318hawaii-missile-threat-false-alarm0151PMStory

Pat said...

Thanks for the updates on your life and activities, Listener. You are an inspiration.

Sunny, warm day here. I'm reading a lot, selecting books to give away. We are in a mild drought, almost no snow in December and January so far.

Hope your day is good.

puddle said...

River finally thawed Saturday. Beginning to come back strongly after just one frozen day! Tropical again by next weekend.

Shirlee, gotta be hard, the sorting and lightening, even if desired. When I became a collector, I had no idea how much energy it would take to love all this stuff. How responsible I'd feel for lovely lovely things.

listener said...

I love reading what everyone here is up to, what's going on in your life where you are, what your hopes are and even how the weather is just now. So good to hear that the river is in motion again, puddle! Huzzah!!

It's still a skating rink here, everywhere. VT Roads on Facebook is where folks post when an accident has been seen or a road is closed or a road is particularly slippery. It has been hopping the past few days! Wow! It's so cold that salt is ineffective. There has been flooding and now a deep freeze and there had to be evacuations in the NW corner of the state, when rivers flooded waist deep then froze! That is NOT a usual occurrence up here. Such flooding happens in Spring, but we don't have a deep freeze then.

The planet is crying out, I feel.

listener said...

I didn't mention, but something really unusual happened when we were traveling to Maine. I got not one but two new requests for spiritual guidance. We'll see how the first meetings go, but it's possible I'll now be offering guidance for 12 wonderful people. I'm beginning to think this could escalate if DT's antics make people look deeper and begin to hone their inner resources. I'll have to watch closely to see how many might be too many for me. I have not often had to turn people away...! I meet with most locally, but there's this one from Maine, one in Connecticut, even one in South Africa.

listener said...

Republican Senator Jeff Flake expected to deliver floor speech comparing Trump's attacks on media to Stalin's
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/14/politics/jeff-flake-stalin-donald-trump/index.html

Pat said...

Good Morning,

Snowing here, cold. Listener, thank you for your review on Amazon of Mountains, Myths & Memories. You are kind and generous.

Yes, thank you Senator Feinstein for releasing the transcript of Glen Simpson's testimony to Congress. We appreciate the links and updates, Listener. When have we ever, when have we ever had such irrationality, deviance, lack of ethics and irresponsibility in the administration?

We've come a ways from the segregation in the 50's but a long way still to go. That we have a holiday dedicated to Dr. Martin Luther King is a tribute and a marker of efforts for justice.

Well, good morning and smiles for everyone. Glad to be here.

puddle said...

Superabimus
Superabimus
Superabimus olim


In corde me
Volo et sic
Ut superabimus olim

Interestingly, if I sing this in English, makes me weep. In Latin, I sob. Loudly.

listener said...

I'd never heard of the word "superabimus" before. Does it mean "to overcome"?

I'm thinking of you as you face into the reality. You are so young at heart. Love you, puddle. ❤️

listener said...

Tomorrow I am to respond to a wonderful email from a lovely artist for whom I am spiritual guide. Lovely artist lives in South Africa. So I go to Google, because I want to get more of a sense of her surroundings. I type "South Africa" and hit Return. The very first item that comes up is this:
South Africa Formally Protests Trump's "shithole" Comment.
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/15/africa/south-africa-trump-diplomatic-protest/index.html

So, thoughts? Should I begin my letter with a humble apology from America, or just go straight to responding to her message?

I am ready to scream for the frustration wreaked by that deranged man every waking minute.

puddle said...

superabimus - Wiktionary
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/superabimus
VerbEdit. superābimus. first-person plural future active indicative of superō. "we shall surmount"; "we shall surpass"; "we shall overcome"; "we shall overflow"; "we shall remain; we shall survive".

listener said...

Thanks, puddle!


PS: I didn't mention DT.

listener said...

On the plus side:

Bannon ordered to testify to Grand Jury
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42710630

listener said...

Hey! If DT's docs say he's not insane, then he can't use the insanity defense. Ha!

listener said...

Incase you missed it:

The President Can Draw a Clock
The cognitive test that Trump passed was neither thorough nor difficult.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/01/the-president-can-draw-a-clock/550610/

I took that test in 2nd grade so they'd know how to place me in a new school. As I recall, it's also about how fast you can do the test. (What would have happened if the letters DACA had been in the list of letters to read? Ha!)

When I was in the ordination process, I had to undergo a psychiatric workup. It involved more than one test (one of them lasted at least 45 minutes) and a long, involved interview with a psychiatrist. [I was deemed "unlikely to become ill under pressure" and had a lot of fun telling my family that I was the only family member "certified sane." LOL!]

Had I become a clergy member, I would have had much responsibility...yet nothing like that of the President...!! So this test of DT is a real insult. Or, as a friend of mine who was a school psychologist put it, "Pathetic! Total disrespect and -regard for all of us!"

Pat said...

Good Morning,
Reading an old article, Sept. 28, 2015, in a New Yorker, I learned that the Chinese name for Trump is Chuanpu. Here's what Google offers,

"In China’s social media, Trump is transliterated into “Chuan-pu” or “Tang-Chuang-Po,” both of which sound funny and disrespectful in Mandarin. The former literally means “Sichuan-style Mandarin” and the latter “Donald Breaking Bed.” Chinese internet users gave Trump these nicknames mostly because they believed that Trump was just a joke and had absolutely no chance of getting elected."

Maybe the worse Trump gets, the more people will respond, resist, become activists. I hope so.

Shirlee Murphy said...

Thanks for the news and all ladies. We sent off a box of my things to each of
the nine grand kids....things carefully chosen by committee...Brenda, Dana
and I. We tried hard consider their vocations and interests. We have had a
note from Theresa in Portland, Oregon. She has always loved to cook and had
some jobs that involved it. She was delighted. We sent her several books, plus an
Old rolling pin and biscuit cutter that belonged to My honey, Vic.

listener said...

via Liane in Vermont: Special Election: Wisconsin Senate District 10, which went +17 for trump has flipped! Congratulations to the new democratic state senator, Patty Schachtner!

Shirlee Murphy said...

Good news, Listener...thanks.

listener said...

Maybe don't read this just before hitting the pillow for the night...

'Don’t Wait Until the Bombs Are Falling.’ Pentagon Papers Leaker Encourages More Like Him
http://time.com/5106039/daniel-ellsberg-nuclear-war-north-korea/

listener said...

Wow! What a GREAT idea to send boxes of treasures to the grands!! Better now than waiting until you have passed on, because you get to find out how they were received! Sweet!! We have a list of certain items that our children and grandchildren will inherit. When the time comes, we can pass them along. I'm intrigued to think the time may be sooner than later. Something to mull!

puddle said...

Just a bit of snow, but coooooooooooooooooooold! River's almost frozen over again. Next week looks better than this.

Shirlee Murphy said...

Cold here, also...but begins to warm to 50+ tomorrow.
Unwarranted, unneeded and nasty snow storm in this
area two days ago. Everything closes.....schools still
closed....but Brenda went off to her office for a couple
of hours...before meeting the estate man at the apartment
to see if he wants the remainder of the apartment contents!
IF he can get out of his driveway...hills around here can
cause trouble in bad weather.

Have good day all.
Love you.

listener said...

Goodness, and all we got up here in Snowflakeland was an inch of snow today. It even warmed up to 20F, so I was waling around without gives and my coat open! I guess my blood had thickened up just fine.

I heard on NPR today that Moscow got a whopping 6 MINUTES (TOTAL!!) of daylight in all of December...!! I didn't quite catch why it was so different this year than their usual 6 hours of daylight. (Maybe it was the cloud over Russia?)

listener said...

Love to you, too, Shirlee!! πŸ’– Stay snug....the Wheel turns! ❄️

puddle said...

Was listening to Charlotte radio this morning--this seems like a helluva storm!

Around noon the wind rising, groaning unceasing. Some new Hell. Gone now.

Unnoticed by all, so far, is that the preznit's HDL is incredibly good. Unlikely a heart attack is gonna take him out, no matter what he looks like. Seems only solution is to get a new house and senate so we can impeach him.

puddle said...

Have a friend who's beaten non-Hodgkin's lymphoma three times. It just returned two months ago, she didn't make it this time. I could hear the fear in her voice, she would not be cheered. She'd just barely gotten to retire. Damn, damn, damn.

Pat said...

I'm sorry, Puddle. There is so much suffering and grief that we humans know.

listener said...

πŸ’” puddle, how old was she? So sad at heart for your loss. XOXOXXX


Grand on the premises overnight and two more arrived at 9am. Off to sleep go I~!

listener said...

Make that: "arriving"!!

puddle said...

She just turned sixty-five this summer. She'd spent the spring cleaning up and getting rid of stuff in order to sell her house, but got a dud real estate agent who didn't. She was working on finding a set of volunteering to keep herself cheerful, and BAM. The cancer was back. She spoke of it from the beginning as especially virulent. Her docs were just about to put her on a newly cleared drug, and she got some kind of head virus just before Christmas, and the doc decided to wait. She's not been eating or drinking hardly at all for a couple of weeks, and night before last I suggested she call 911 and get herself to ER, stat. She evidently didn't--said they'd just send her home. . . .

Pat said...

Hi Friends,

I'm sorry about your friend, Puddle. I'll say prayer tonight for her.

I hope your weekend is fun, and I'm sue it will be, Listener. What a wonderful family you are.

Shirlee, hope all is well, and your storm is over.

We're supposed to get snow tonight, maybe a foot. Ah, winter.

And we carry on, brave, smiling, grateful for our good lives.

listener said...

puddle, your friend may have been right about the ER. I remember that when close friends' son was dying of a brain tumor, after the docs determined it was inoperable and there was nothing they could do, the docs quietly told them that if he had a pain emergency and they called an ambulance, the crew would be legally bound to do everything in their power to keep him alive. Instead it would make more sense to bring him in themselves if needed. They set up morphine drip for him at home. I hope your friend died peacefully. So very sad how young she was. Cancer is so cold and undiscerning.

I hope she knew how much she was loved.

Love you. ♥

listener said...

Pat, thank you for all your sweetnesses!

My goodness, another foot of snow. I hope you will have help with getting shoveled out.

We had nearly 40F here today. And we had a Three Grand Morning. The day went wonderfully well and we ended it exhausted and very happy.

puddle said...

I think she knew. But I don't think it was cancer so much as starvation and dehydration.

We had an utterly lovely day here, Beau was out for hours and hours. Is asleep now. More nice days on the way.

Shirlee Murphy said...

Same here, Puddle. So sorry to hear about your friend.
You are so right.....cancer is cruel, disrupting lives, backing off,
appearing again. There were a number of cancer victims in my
father’s family...Brenda found someplace that it could be genetic.
I think my two tongue and mouth cancers are more related to RA
and the heavy duty medicine I need to take to keep it under control.
Knocks out my immune system..but not complaining...

Love to all

whitznd said...

So sorry for the loss of your friend, Puddle. I'm glad she had you for such a loving, caring friend.

Love to all you ladies. I'm so glad that most of you are on FB. I don't have that much time to poke around and it's easier on me to have one place to go to.

puddle said...

Barb! How nice to see you here! ♥!

Called the kid Friday night to find out if he was going to be involved in this shut down (was in the last one), but he's moved up the secrecy scale, and is now needed.

listener said...

Too bad for the kid, because he won't be being paid while he has to work anyway. (Talk about insulting!)

Was your friend's starvation and dehydration deliberate on her part or a product of her situation? Either way, it's not an easy exit.

Sending HUGS. XOXOXXX

listener said...

TODAY!

via Rick Thoman (Alaska):

"First sunrise of the year is Jan 22 at Utqiađvik, Alaska 🌞"

listener said...

^ aka Barrow

puddle said...

She caught some kind of chest/head virus which made her so weak and wobbly that she wasn't eating or drinking much. That last night when it became obvious to several of us, we were too far to help. Those closer were dealing with their own illnesses and not available. She was very independent and *hated* asking for help. I remember when the Achalasia had finally peaked and I was actually AT the ER how casually they treated it *until* they got the blood work back. . . . But I sat in the waiting room for 8 hours before they even did blood work. *Then* and only then did they get galvanized. I can see being in Liz's place--weak, dizzy, having trubble breathing, and thinking why bother? They'll just send me home again to this. . . .

Pat said...

A colleague of mine and her husband lived and worked in Barrow for at least several years. They eventually moved to Anchorage.

Puddle, I'm so sorry for your friend. I don't think most of us were meant to live alone. There's a deep loneliness and disconnection, I think, when we are alone.
I call my sister almost every day and an old high school friend, sometimes my sons every few days. I need the connection.

And oh, the magnificent starry skies, just beautiful, mysterious, and beyond comprehension. Thank you for the link.

listener said...

Gorgeous sky, puddle!!


Such a sorrowful ending to a good life. We so deeply need a better healthcare system!! This should not be possible at all.

listener said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
listener said...

Let me try that again. Some of that didn't make plain sense.



I'm deeply saddened tonight for several reasons. Just in the last two hours I have learned that a loved one's breast cancer has returned. This time she is not expected to make it through. She has maybe a year. She also has a 6 year old son who will be orphaned. Jessica is the daughter of my husband's sister's late partner. She and Jessica (who was a young adult at the time her mother died) decided to consider themselves related. So when Jessica (as a single woman) adopted a little boy, Bill's sister became a grandmother. Six months later, Jessica was diagnosed with breast cancer! Bill's sister supported them through a lot of the treatments, and she came through it well. But it's back with a vengeance. Bill's sister doesn't feel she can care for the sweet boy (doesn't want to be one more essential person who leaves him too soon). But Joey's best buddy's family is planning to adopt Joey when the time comes!! This is really the bright spot in the whole ugly mess. They have known him so long he doesn't remember not knowing them. Their youngest is his best buddy, and they have two or three older children as well. Mama is a nurse and trained as a midwife. Both parents are a LOT of fun and do holidays and field trips and all of that with their children. Joey will be well loved (already is) and over the course of the year he can slowly transition to their home as his mother gets more ill. But, go, it's utterly heart-wrenching! πŸ’”

Add to this that our dearly loved Dean Campaign person, Dina Wolkoff, has had a family tragedy. Her husband of not yet two years just died (January 10th) of prostate cancer. So hard! Galen was a vibrant and loving man. My heart goes out to her. I lit a candle for Galen tonight. πŸ•―

listener said...

But wait. You know how they say things come in threes?

My former library coworker (one who was always good to me) just told me that her breast cancer returned recently after 14 years. She is in her 70's, and the protocol is usually for a mastectomy. But her docs said that since the tumor is so small they thought removal would work. Only, due to previous scar tissue, she's been dealing with an infection ever since the surgery in mid-December. But at least it looks like once that is cleared up she'll be okay. (I hope.)

There is absolutely zero incidence of cancer in my family of origin. But that doesn't mean it doesn't affect me.

We need a cure.

Pat said...

Good Morning,

Sunny but cool here. Yes, Listener, cancer such a scourge, and the courage it takes to combat it with radiation, chemo, pills, pain, endurance. We've always been subject to disease, accident, famine, oppression. I wish I could find in some philosophy how this fits into the life of all beings and the planet. Yet, I see in my friendships such amazing courage, strength, resilience, compassion, and generosity. As I get older, I'm more and more in awe and in admiration at the strength of character of everyone I've known.

Maybe there is a deeper, more spiritual reason for suffering.

Barb, it's good to see you here.

I've read that (maybe in Time Magazine?) that there are 40 million Americans who are lonely, who have few contacts, who feel the isolation that brings depression. I'm grateful for the phone, for the computer, for the kindnesses we meet even when shopping at the supermarket.

This latest use of technology by Amazon I think is a terrible misuse. People shop in what looks like a warehouse, register with their I-Phones, pick out their groceries as cameras digitally record what they are buying, and then leave the store carrying their groceries and not having to check out. There isn'a single person involved. What were the people at Amazon thinking of? I enjoy the chat with the checkout clerk, enjoy passing someone in an aisle, saying excuse me, enjoy waiting in line for checkout and exchanging comments with someone ahead or behind me, enjoy the stockers and department managers who are busy in the aisles. When did it become a burden to share a space with others, to engage in activities with others? I'm not sure I want to be part of a world that only offers technology.

Just my grumbling. I hope you have a good day, dear friends.

Shirlee Murphy said...

These cancer stories are heart wrenching...especially knowing someone
is alone. I feel so lucky and grateful to have Brenda....who is a great
caretaker with a few other in and out helpers. They all know Brenda is
in charge, that they do as asked/required....or else....they get reported
or not paid whichever is appropriate.

Pat, I agree with you about shopping if one is mobile, has a car and a
good grocery store near. We have a variety of good grocery stores
here in Greensboro and Brenda likes to shop so that mostly works
well for us. But there are certain things ..supplements and supplies
that we order from Amazon....and I think they can do groceries also.
We may need to if Brenda were sick, etc. not sure if they carry some
of the interesting things she can get here.

Stay well....love to all.

puddle said...

RETURNING TO THE ROOT

Be completely empty.
Be perfectly serene.
The ten thousand things arise together;
in their arising is their return.
Now they flower,
and flowering
sink homeward,
returning to the root.

The return to the root is peace.
Peace: to accept what must be,
to know what endures.
In that knowledge is wisdom.
Without it, ruin, disorder.

To know what endures
is to be openhearted,
magnanimous,
regal,
blessed,
following the Tao,
the way that endures forever.
The body comes to its ending,
but there is nothing to fear.
Tao Te Ching #16 -
Ursula K. LeGuin's rendition

Pat said...

Thank you, Puddle. I just listened to NPR tell of her death at 88. A beautiful poem, but I still have difficulty reconciling death, impermanence, loss. Thich Nhat Hanh says we are all in the dharma, no birth no death, but still I feel incomprehension.

Shirlee, you have a good point. I'm glad that Amazon and maybe others deliver, take orders via I-phones, but the general experience in the supermarket, for me, involves people: seeing people I know, interacting, the staff who has been there for years and can greet me by name. Are people going to be obsolete, considered to be impediments? And what about jobs, what will people do for work, for sustenance.

Well, off to do some reading.

listener said...

Today was an interesting day.

I met Wil for lunch to celebrate his 6th Anniversary in his job. Then I zoomed to the shop that fits cancer patients for wigs. I wanted to find a particular jaunty tan newsboy cap with floret, actually, just like the one I got for our niece when she was first diagnosed with breast cancer. She loved that cap so much, and later gave it to another cancer patient. But now her cancer has recurred. Sadly, that very cap is no longer made. I did find three other tan caps, bought them all, and got them mailed before the post office closed.

I was supposed to visit my former coworker today, whose breast cancer also recurred, and who had surgery last month but now is dealing with a post-op infection. She is so extraverted and wasn't slowing down, and the infection wasn't going away, so her docs told her she had to stay at home until the infection clears. But she finally admitted that she had been filling up the days with visitors, and getting wiped out. I was glad when she admitted as much to me [and I asked if her docs are next going to need to sequester her! Ha!]; and we made arrangements for her to rest for a few days and then check in with me about rescheduling.

I'm plotting bringing her a pot of some delicious food, something chocolate, and perhaps a pair of candles, decorated. And I might leave them on her doorstep, then go home and email her to go check for them. Ha!

listener said...

I agree about grocery shopping, Pat. When our small supermarket opened last year, I couldn't go two aisles without running into someone I know, and everywhere there were small groups of friends blocking the aisles for conversations. Ha! It's settled down a little, but I nearly always see someone I know there. The staff are so friendly and happy (they are well treated and fairly compensated), and there never seems to be tension when something goes wrong at the register, because the clerk won't be chewed out for making a mistake. I love the feeling in that shop! We need MORE humanity-in-the-ordinary like this, not less. It reminds me of when e-books came out and people loved them for awhile. I always wanted real books which I can hold in my hands, preferably hard cover. I note that ebooks have begun to fall out of fashion, in favour of a return to real books.


"but I still have difficulty reconciling death, impermanence, loss. Thich Nhat Hanh says we are all in the dharma, no birth no death, but still I feel incomprehension."

It is incomprehensible. Our bodies feel so finite, every leaf, tree, flower and even our planet so finite. How can we comprehend the infinite? Yet ... We have evidence of something else. Scientists tell us that Matter and Energy are interchangeable. Have you ever watched the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know?" Maybe give it a try. Invite a good friend, though, because it will blow your mind!

listener said...

"Maybe there is a deeper, more spiritual reason for suffering."

Yes. I believe there is. As the saying goes:

"God didn't stop the crucifixion
He rose from the dead."

Author (and Episcopal priest) Barbara Brown Taylor asks, in her book God in Pain:

What if God's will for Jesus was long life and success? And his death on the cross wasn't 'the fulfillment of God's will' but the [albeit temporary] frustration of it?

That is what I rest my faith on. Not a God who came among us TO suffer and die, but one who came among us and humans made him suffer and die. Think of that: the worst in us killed the best in us. And yet. That wasn't the last word.

As C.S. Lewis expressed so beautifully in his Narnia series, there was a magic more ancient than the magic of the White Witch. So when Aslan offered himself to the Witch, to die, in exchange for her not killing the Sons and Daughters of Men, and she had killed him, and he had lain there all night dead, in the morning he was alive again and stronger than ever.

All these ways of expressing the inexpressible point toward that same Matter and Energy exchange the scientists speak of. Nothing will be truly LOST because atoms cannot be lost. Or, as the priest said at our grandniece Jillian's funeral, "Nothing God loves can cease to exist; therefore, though changed, Jillian still exists."

What we can't take in is the enormity of the change...!

If you haven't yet read Proof of Heaven by Eben Alexander, it might help. He's a neurologist who became extremely ill and suffered a week-long near death experience. He recounts it afterwards and explains why he was changed from an utter skeptic of such things to a strong believer. His medical information helps, as does his story...especially what I'll call the "punch line."

But suffering itself. Hmmm. The best I have ever come up with for comprehending the WHY of it is that suffering is what we feel when we experience (or compassionately companion) this change from "life" to "death." Sometimes it's a quick thing, like an accident or heart attack. Other times it's long and slow like cancer or other illness. We experience the change as loss, and as sorrow. I think that says so much about our capacity for LOVE.

Suffering that isn't physical but interiorly emotional can also come from any deliberate action in which we are turning away from love.

Edith Schaeffer used to say that hell is the absence of God. For our purposes, let's say hell would be the absence of Love. She believed that "purgatory" is what is experienced when the soul stands before God (say, perfect Love) and sees its lack.

Lucy Maud Montgomery wrote of Ruby Gillis, who spent her life in folly and died young. She wondered, if the chaff in us is effectively burned away when we die, leaving only the good in us, would there be enough left of Ruby to be recognisable in heaven?

We talk about these things, we wonder and we postulate. We do what we can to put the inexpressible and ineffable into words and images. Every culture in every age has experienced something and passed on their stories. We long to express what matters most to us. And all the while the great beauty of it is that we can never truly express or describe it, for then wouldn't we have power over it? And just imagine what humans would do to each other then. Hmmm. Maybe that in the Universe that is purely Holy kept that part a mystery out of love for us, to save us from ourselves? Maybe God gets to have a little free will too?

listener said...

Hmmm. I missed making a key point.

I think the "reason" for suffering is actually more a natural consequence than a reason. Having a reason implies some sort of pre-plan to make something happen. I think maybe it's really more like something that can't be avoided when certain conditions are present.

Just as someone is conspicuous by their absence, a lack of love or health or beauty is felt as sorrow or pain or loss. It's like the other side of the coin. We evolved to be able to experience these things, and in so doing we also experience their absence. Seeing the difference between one thing and another is part of how we made decisions and survived on the planet. But if we no longer need to tend our survival, maybe we also transcend these differences.

And now I'm back in the realm of the indescribable.

listener said...

One more note to leave you with...

I once asked a very wise priest what prayer does.

She responded that prayer "opens the possible" in the freedom of creation.

I love that. I love that it is simply offering our free will for the good of a particular action or outcome. And I truly believe that our energy then lines up with the energy lines of the Earth and there is some deep pull that is exerted toward the good. And in those times when it is not possible, and we experience sorrow at that loss, our energy is not ever wasted, but is transformed into love.

Pat said...

I will read your messages again, Listener. Your reasoning, references, and insights are helpful, offer solace despite suffering, despite loss, despite the attempt to control our lives. Beautifully told, Listener, and you've shared your guidance with us. Thank you.

I did see What the Bleep Do We Know, and I've read C.S. Lewis' The Narnia Series. I would like to read the doctor's story Proof of Heaven, and I suspect, I know, I'll continue to read, question, and long for the return of those I've loved. Your speaking directly is as powerful, more powerful, than a book, and thank you. Later today, I'll return and reread what you have written.

Shirlee Murphy said...

I think it is only natural to long for the return of the ones we have loved.
But, I would need to think about the circumstances of the loved ones life
and death. I long for my darling Vic....but would not want him back
suffering as he was....unable to breathe on his own, unable to garden,
unable to fish, unable to climb the ladder and fix the roof of the house. etc.
I have made it clear to my young’uns no heroic measures for me. I have
had a long and interesting,challenging life..with its ups and downs..that is
enough for me.

Now waiting for Brenda to come home from an unusually long
day at work....and arranging to get the last things emptied from
the apartment and taken to an organization which will make
sure they get to people who need/want them.

Love to all...love your discussions on all topics.

Pat said...

I agree, Shirlee. I would not want those I love to suffer, to feel unable to live a full life, yet how much I miss them. My life is part of theirs and theirs are part of me, and I too, don't want any extraordinary measures. I am grateful, as you are, for a full life.

It's good to hear your thoughts.

listener said...

"My life is part of theirs and theirs are part of me"

There it is. That is exactly your struggle. For all those years your life and David's were intertwined, and you became part of one another in the same sort of why that our brain makes new neural pathways as needed. Suddenly, he died. That's like saying that all those neural pathways your brain had connected to David suddenly had nowhere to go, their pathways were truncated. It takes time for the brain to make new neural pathways. People who have been in an accident and lost function have to wait for the brain to make new neural pathways to regain the function. Small wonder the little things are so difficult.

Some of that will get re-directed and get easier. But some of the really big things, like being connected to David himself (!!) may always leave you with phantom pain. It might help to see that struggle as a gift of love. We don't want the pain, and we don't want to feel lonely or miserable and at time incompetent. But we also wouldn't want to wake up and have forgotten all of it, either.

We sure are complex creatures. Just keep leaning into Love and you'll be okay. ♥

listener said...

* "same sort of why" should read: same sort of way

listener said...

* "at time incompetent" should read: at times incompetent


And that just made me giggle!

listener said...

Mueller is First!

So, did everybody catch that DT said on Wednesday that he'd like to testify under oath? Of course he has also said he'll follow the advice of this lawyers. Ha! So we'll see. But it's said that Mueller likely won't agree to just written statements from the President.

Mueller gives Trump's attorneys possible topics for interview
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/24/politics/special-counsel-trump-interview/index.html

Looks like they're leaning toward Obstruction of Justice.
Wow, how non-Presidential can you get?

puddle said...

New thread!!!

Pat said...

Thank you, Listener for you thoughts on the intertwining of life, and yes, the pain also represents the love. It will be a part of the struggle, but it is real, and I will do my best. You are an insightful and compassionate counselor. Thank you.

listener said...

πŸ’– Sweetnesses to you, Pat. πŸ’

Guide, but never counselor.
And I wasn't really responding as a guide either.
Just as a friend. ❤️πŸ’œπŸ’™πŸ’›πŸ’š